Legislature(2007 - 2008)HOUSE FINANCE 519

04/02/2008 01:30 PM House FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ SB 57 MARINE PARKS ADDITIONS & MANAGEMENT TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
+ SB 209 EXTEND ALASKA COMMISSION ON AGING TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
+ SB 254 AK REGIONAL ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE PROGRAM TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= HB 281 CAMPAIGN FINANCE COMPLAINTS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 281(FIN) Out of Committee
<Bill Hearing Rescheduled from 8:30 am>
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                       April 2, 2008                                                                                            
                         1:46 P.M.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer called the House  Finance Committee meeting to                                                                   
order at 1:46:14 PM.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Bill Stoltze, Vice-Chair                                                                                         
Representative Harry Crawford                                                                                                   
Representative Les Gara                                                                                                         
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Mike Kelly                                                                                                       
Representative Mary Nelson                                                                                                      
Representative Bill Thomas Jr.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Richard Foster                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Bob   Lynn;   Representative   Jay   Ramras;                                                                   
Representative  Kyle Johansen;  Jesse  Kiehl, Staff,  Senator                                                                   
Kim  Elton;   James  King,   Director,  Division   of  Parks,                                                                   
Department  of  Natural  Resources;   Tom  Obermeyer,  Staff,                                                                   
Senator Bettye  Davis; Denise  Daniello, Executive  Director,                                                                   
Alaska Commission  on Aging; Marie Darlin,  Alaska Associated                                                                   
Retired  People  Task  Force; Jody  Simpson,  Staff,  Senator                                                                   
Charlie Huggins                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ivan  Moore;   Marc  Hennenthal;   Chris  Ellingson,   Acting                                                                   
Executive   Director,  Alaska   Public  Offices   Commission,                                                                   
Anchorage;  Michael  Hanzuk,  Development  Specialist,  Ardor                                                                   
Program,   Office   Economic  Development,   Ardor   program,                                                                   
Department of  Commerce, Community and Economic  Development;                                                                   
Michael   Catsi,   Executive   Director,   Southwest   Alaska                                                                   
Municipal Conference                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 281    An  Act extending  the statute  of limitations  for                                                                   
          the filing of complaints with the Alaska Public                                                                       
          Offices Commission involving state election                                                                           
          campaigns.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
          CS HB 281 (FIN) was  reported out of Committee with                                                                   
          "individual"  recommendations and  with a  new zero                                                                   
          note  by  the  Legislative Affairs  Agency,  a  new                                                                   
          fiscal  notes  by the  Department  of  Law and  the                                                                   
          Department of Administration.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CS SB 57(RES)                                                                                                                   
          An Act  relating to fishing, hunting,  and trapping                                                                   
          in  marine  park units  of  the Alaska  state  park                                                                   
          system, amending the  area within designated marine                                                                   
          park  units of  the Alaska  state park system,  and                                                                   
          adding marine  park units to the Alaska  state park                                                                   
          system.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
          CS SB  57 (RES) was reported out of  Committee with                                                                   
          a "no  recommendation" and  with fiscal note  #2 by                                                                   
          the Department  of Natural Resources and  zero note                                                                   
          #3 by the Department of Fish and Game.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SB 209    An Act extending the termination date of the                                                                          
          Alaska  Commission on Aging;  and providing  for an                                                                   
          effective date.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          SB 209 was reported out of Committee with a "do                                                                       
          pass" recommendation  and with fiscal notes #1 & #2                                                                   
          by the Department of Health and Social Services.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SB 254    An Act extending the termination date of the                                                                          
          Alaska  regional economic  assistance program;  and                                                                   
          providing for an effective date.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          SB 254  was HEARD &  HELD in Committee  for further                                                                   
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:47:17 PM                                                                                                                    
HOUSE BILL NO. 281                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     An Act extending the statute of limitations for the                                                                        
     filing of complaints with the Alaska Public Offices                                                                        
     Commission involving state election campaigns.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer noted that Amendments 1 & 2 had been                                                                             
WITHDRAWN at a prior meeting.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:49:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 3, 25-                                                                             
LS1115\T.4, Bullard, 4/2/08.  Vice-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara addressed his comments to the amendment:                                                                    
        Page 1, Line 7, following "Code;", inserting                                                                            
        "requiring the disclosure of the identity of                                                                            
     certain  candidates,  groups, non  group  entities,                                                                        
     and  persons paying  for  certain polls  mentioning                                                                        
     the  name of  a  political party  or  the names  of                                                                        
     certain   candidates   for   state   or   municipal                                                                        
     office;".                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page  1,  following  Line  9:  Insert  a  new  bill                                                                        
     section to  read:  "Section 1. AS 15.13  is amended                                                                        
     by adding  a new section  to read: Sec.  15.13.092.                                                                        
     Identification  of  certain  polls.    All  opinion                                                                        
     polls  that  mention  a candidate  in  an  election                                                                        
     occurring  under  this chapter  or  that mention  a                                                                        
     political  party  in  the   60  days  preceding  an                                                                        
     election,  must clearly  identify the  name of  any                                                                        
     candidate,  group, or non-group  entity paying  for                                                                        
     the  poll and any  person paying  more than  $2,000                                                                        
     for the  poll, followed  by the words  "contributed                                                                        
     money to pay for this poll."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 10, deleting "Section 1" and                                                                                  
     inserting "Sec. 2".                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, Line 3, deleting  "sec. 2", inserting "sec.                                                                        
     3".  Page  5, Line 6, deleting "sec.  2", inserting                                                                        
     "sec.  3".   Page  5, Line  7, deleting  "sec.  2",                                                                        
     inserting  "sec.  3".   Page  5, Line  8,  deleting                                                                        
     "sec. 1"  & inserting  "sec. 2".   Page 5, Line  9,                                                                        
     deleting "sec. 1", inserting "sec. 2".                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     On Page  5, Lines  10, 11 &  12, deleting "sec.  3"                                                                        
     and inserting  "sec. 4".   Page 5,  Lines 12  & 13,                                                                        
     deleting "sec. 6" and inserting  "sec. 7".  Page 5,                                                                        
     Lines 15, 17 & 18, deleting  "sec. 7" and inserting                                                                        
     "sec. 8".   Page 5, Lines  19 & 20, deleting  "sec.                                                                        
     8"  and  inserting "sec.  9".    Page 5,  Line  20,                                                                        
     delete "sec. 8" and insert  "sec. 9". Page 5, Lines                                                                        
     22  & 23,  delete "sec.  9" and  insert "sec.  10".                                                                        
     Page 5, Line 25, delete "sec.  10" and insert "sec.                                                                        
     11".  Page 5, Line 27, delete  "sec. 11" and insert                                                                        
     "sec. 12".                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Page  6,   Line  6,   deleting  "Section  13"   and                                                                        
     inserting "Section  14".  Page 6, Line  7, deleting                                                                        
     "sec. 14" and inserting "sec. 15".                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker was not aware that his name was going                                                                     
to be included on the amendment.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara explained  the intent of the amendment to                                                                   
address  attack polls,  certain  polls in  which, the  public                                                                   
never knows who are behind.  There  are situations the public                                                                   
might like to know about:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
   ·    If there is a candidate behind a poll;                                                                                  
   ·    If there is a Political Action Committee (PAC)                                                                          
        behind the poll; and                                                                                                    
   ·    If there is any person [business, labor group,                                                                          
        organization] who is paying more than $2,000 dollars                                                                    
        for the poll.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:51:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  thought  it would  apply  to  all  political                                                                   
opinion polls.  Vice-Chair Stoltze  did not know if there was                                                                   
a legal  definition of "polling".   He understood  the intent                                                                   
but  pointed out  that  sometimes,  there is  something  that                                                                   
resembles a poll  but in actuality, distributes  only factual                                                                   
or non factual information.  The  body of law is complicated.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  appreciated  the question,  noting  two                                                                   
solutions.   Regardless of  the kind  of poll, people  should                                                                   
know who  is paying  for the  poll and  who is attempting  to                                                                   
affect  the  outcome of  that  election.   If  Alaska  Public                                                                   
Offices  Commission   (APOC)  needed   to  define   the  word                                                                   
"polling",  they could  do  it  by regulation.    He did  not                                                                   
believe that "poll"  needs to be defined any  further than it                                                                   
currently is.   Vice-Chair Stoltze  wondered if it  should be                                                                   
defined regulatoraly.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:54:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer supported the intent  of Amendment 3, however,                                                                   
worried that the change might  taint the outcome of the poll.                                                                   
He  asked  if   disclosure  could  be  placed   at  the  end.                                                                   
Representative  Gara said  yes,  the amendment  provides  the                                                                   
discretion to  determine where  to insert the  information to                                                                   
the voter.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
IVAN MOORE testified via teleconference,  spoke in opposition                                                                   
to Amendment  3.    He stated that  in principle, he  did not                                                                   
have an  issue with  the requirement.   He but worried  about                                                                   
the  mandatory  disclosure during  the  course  of the  poll,                                                                   
creating a bias.   When the pollster conducts  the poll, they                                                                   
do not know who the client is  that is paying for it.  When a                                                                   
surveyor  requests to  know  who is  offering  the poll,  Mr.                                                                   
Moore's  phone  number  is  provided and  he  can  be  called                                                                   
directly.  He  was worried with his interviewers  knowing who                                                                   
the funder of the poll is because  that can introduce a bias.                                                                   
He suggested amending it to require  that a pollster disclose                                                                   
when asked,  instead  of it being  a requirement  that  it is                                                                   
disclosed  in every  interview.   Co-Chair  Meyer  understood                                                                   
that.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Moore reiterated  that knowing who the funder  is creates                                                                   
a tendency  to do  things that make  people happy,  which the                                                                   
interviewer could subconsciously segue the information.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:00:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze  referenced  the  professional  pollsters                                                                   
versus  those  that  offer  "push-polls".     Mr.  Moore  was                                                                   
uncomfortable with the suggestion  that there are many of the                                                                   
push  polls about  and that  pollsters  routinely engaged  in                                                                   
polls  that  are intended  to  influence  the outcome  of  an                                                                   
election.   That  has never  been  his intent  during his  20                                                                   
years in  business.  Vice-Chair  Stoltze asked  clarification                                                                   
regarding the types of polls & the negative tactics used.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:02:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara was not concerned  about who pays for the                                                                   
candidates   but  rather   worried   about  "shadow   groups"                                                                   
influencing  elections.  Mr.  Moore argued  that he  does not                                                                   
tell his interviewers  who pays for the polls  but rather has                                                                   
them call  him directly.   Representative  Gara thought  that                                                                   
Mr. Moore  could hire  people that  would not be  influenced.                                                                   
Mr.  Moore disagreed.    Representative  Gara maintained  the                                                                   
need to  disclose to  the voters is  more important  and that                                                                   
pollsters could find a way to work around their bias.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer asked  if  it  would apply  to  out of  State                                                                   
pollsters  as  well.    Representative  Gara  affirmed.    He                                                                   
disclosed that Mr.  Moore had worked for him in  the past and                                                                   
that they never did a push poll.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:04:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Crawford questioned  what happens when  there                                                                   
is  an unknown  group  requesting  a  poll.   Co-Chair  Meyer                                                                   
responded that they would have  the option to call Mr. Moore.                                                                   
Representative Crawford  pointed out that the  amendment does                                                                   
not clarify that.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  pointed out  that  if  a candidate  was                                                                   
paying, their  name would be  required; if a  political party                                                                   
was  paying,  then that  would  have  to  be disclosed.    He                                                                   
acknowledged that  some of the  group/non group  entities can                                                                   
come up with  misleading names that the legislation  will not                                                                   
be able  to address.  The  last line clarifies that  if there                                                                   
is any contributor  that has placed more than  $2,000 dollars                                                                   
into the poll, their name must be revealed.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:05:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Hawker  addressed   root   names  that   are                                                                   
intentionally misleading  and in  which a pollster  could ask                                                                   
an offensive series of poll questions,  paid for by a certain                                                                   
party.   He noted  that the comments  made by  Representative                                                                   
Gara had assuaged his concerns.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  questioned that  certain parties  would be                                                                   
responsible   for   disclosing   to  Alaska   Public   Office                                                                   
Commission  (APOC).   Representative Gara  believed that  the                                                                   
bulk of  citizens who receive  the polling information  would                                                                   
not research the APOC records  and that those records are not                                                                   
always  available  until the  end  of  the summer  before  an                                                                   
election.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault  referenced  the language:  "Must  clearly                                                                   
identify the  name of  any group or  non group",  asking what                                                                   
difference that  could make.   Representative Gara  agreed it                                                                   
would be difficult to do everything  right.  If the candidate                                                                   
was paying  or the  political party  or corporation  or labor                                                                   
union  was  paying,  it  will  important  to  find  out  that                                                                   
information.   Under those circumstances, it  is important to                                                                   
know  the  party  that  is  behind  it.    Co-Chair  Chenault                                                                   
indicated  concern with  those offering  polls for  deceptive                                                                   
motives, yet did  not think the amendment addressed  the real                                                                   
concerns.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:09:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Hawker   responded    that   from   personal                                                                   
experience,  he  had  utilized a  professional  pollster  and                                                                   
those dollars  were filed  with APOC.   He attempted  to find                                                                   
out who  has been  polling with the  many calls he  receives.                                                                   
Polling in  and of itself  is not disclosable;  disclosure is                                                                   
only required  when the  group and  entity requirements  that                                                                   
the Legislature  subjects to disclosure.  He  emphasized that                                                                   
the need is full disclosure.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:11:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARC HENNENTHAL,  testified via  teleconference, agreed  with                                                                   
the comments  made by Mr.  Moore regarding disclosure  by the                                                                   
interviewers  regarding who pays  for a  poll.  He  mentioned                                                                   
the  published information  available  regarding  interviewer                                                                   
bias.    Providing   polls  is  the  business   of  measuring                                                                   
behavior,  opinions   and  the   like,  not  advertising   or                                                                   
advocating  for a position.   He  maintained that push  polls                                                                   
are  not  truly  polls  and by  law,  they  are  required  to                                                                   
indicate who is offering the service.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hennenthal pointed  out that  outside  of the  political                                                                   
arena, anyone that  polls usually do not want  anyone else to                                                                   
know  that they  are polling  as it  provides information  to                                                                   
their competitors.  He spoke against  projecting the rules of                                                                   
advertising to the pollsters.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  asked when the  pollsters reveal the  name of                                                                   
the requester.   Mr. Hennenthal explained that  the pollsters                                                                   
can  only   provide  his  phone   number  as  the   name  for                                                                   
information on the poll.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:15:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  disclosed that he had sold a  car to Mr.                                                                   
Hennenthal's son.   He asked if legally Mr.  Hennenthal would                                                                   
be  required  to indicate  "paid  for  by".   Mr.  Hennenthal                                                                   
replied that push poll require  that but he added that a push                                                                   
poll  is not a  real poll.   APOC  requires a  "paid for  by"                                                                   
indication on that type poll.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  asked what occurs  if it was not  a push                                                                   
poll  "paid  for"  poll  &  offered  by  a  legislator;  APOC                                                                   
stipulates that  information should  be made available.   Mr.                                                                   
Hennenthal stated  they do not  provide that information  and                                                                   
are  not  required   to  so  and  that  it   could  bias  the                                                                   
interviewers on the results of the poll.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  thought that if  he paid for a  poll, it                                                                   
should  be  considered  a  campaign  expense  and  should  be                                                                   
included.   He worried that  requiring the information  for a                                                                   
push poll could indicate a name  not recognized by the person                                                                   
being polled.  Mr. Hennenthal  maintained that not every poll                                                                   
is required to register who pays with APOC.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara pointed out  that is what  the amendment                                                                   
addresses.   He asked what happens  if he pays for  the poll.                                                                   
Representative  Gara advised that  Mr. Hennenthal  would have                                                                   
to provide  his own name  and that no  one would  really know                                                                   
who requested the  poll.  He added that under  the amendment,                                                                   
the  name  would  need  to  reveal   the  information.    Mr.                                                                   
Hennenthal   commented   that    would   be   reselling   it.                                                                   
Representative  Gara said  in  that case,  he  was not  being                                                                   
regulated  by it  and that  if  it becomes  a "real  campaign                                                                   
poll",  the  poll  should  not happen  unless  the  money  is                                                                   
provided up front.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:19:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  followed    the  distinction  between                                                                   
advertising  and  measuring.   He  agreed  that there  is  an                                                                   
extreme  on  each  end  of the  spectrum  and  worried  about                                                                   
playing around  those margins.  The amendment  clarifies that                                                                   
it  must  be   disclosed  and  closes  the   loophole.    Mr.                                                                   
Hennenthal  asked about  the confidentiality  of the  company                                                                   
that has interest in their opponents.   Representative Hawker                                                                   
clarified that  was the  point of the  amendment and  that he                                                                   
thought it was  a good idea.  Mr. Hennenthal  maintained that                                                                   
language would  discourage anyone  adding anything  political                                                                   
to their polls.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:21:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly  accessed that the conversation  affects                                                                   
poll information.   He worried  that the action  could change                                                                   
the confidence  level on a poll;  however, agreed that  it is                                                                   
nice for politicians to know.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:22:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair    Stoltze    referenced    comments    made    by                                                                   
Representative  Hawker that  opposing  candidates do  receive                                                                   
the information and that information  does not show-up on the                                                                   
APOC records, would the amendment  change that, making easier                                                                   
to enforce.   Representative Hawker refuted that  it would be                                                                   
an  alleged   violation.    A   corporation  or   some  other                                                                   
organization,  polling with political  motives, can  make the                                                                   
information public without it  being a violation.  Vice-Chair                                                                   
Stoltze acknowledged  that he  had not indicated  his thought                                                                   
"artfully"; he expected that every poll was on the "level".                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:24:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BOB  LYNN,  SPONSOR,  acknowledged  that  all                                                                   
polls  are  inaccurate  &  bias, admitting  the  area  is  of                                                                   
concern.  He  requested the amendment be a  separate piece of                                                                   
legislation  and  offered  to  work  with  Committee  members                                                                   
during the interim.  He preferred not to incorporate it.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:26:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Meyer  agreed   that  the   amendment  should   be                                                                   
considered on  the House Floor.  Representative  Gara offered                                                                   
an idea to scale back the amendment  to solve those concerns.                                                                   
He directed  his comments to the  two pollsters on-line.   If                                                                   
at  the end  of the  polls,  the interviewer  comments  that:                                                                   
"This poll is  paid for by persons interested  in the outcome                                                                   
of this election".   The language could add  a requirement to                                                                   
provide a local  or toll free phone number,  which should not                                                                   
bias  the  interviewers  and  providing  the  information  to                                                                   
people that are  willing to make the call.   Mr. Moore agreed                                                                   
that could resolve  his concerns and supported  the approach.                                                                   
Mr.  Hennenthal   also  agreed  that  it  does   address  the                                                                   
interviewer bias but that he would  maintain his objection to                                                                   
the change.   Government should not be  intruding, especially                                                                   
when 90% of the  polling is on sensitive areas.    He thought                                                                   
the change could open a "can of worms".                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:30:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara stressed that  the amendment only applies                                                                   
to a poll that mentions a candidate  or political party.  Mr.                                                                   
Hennenthal thought that it could  drive up costs.  He pointed                                                                   
out  that the  poll charges  by  the length  and is  measured                                                                   
accurately,  which  means  certain   entities  could  not  be                                                                   
offering  polls  as  it  would  be  prohibitively  expensive.                                                                   
Representative  Gara pointed  out  that it  does resolve  the                                                                   
concern of interviewer bias.  Mr. Hennenthal agreed.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:31:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault  asked  for   an  estimate  on  a  typical                                                                   
political poll.  Mr. Hennenthal  responded anywhere from $100                                                                   
dollars on up.   The highest he knew of cost  $20,000 dollars                                                                   
that is  rare.   Mr. Hennenthal  said $5,000 was  reasonable;                                                                   
however,  tracking polls  are cheaper.   Mr. Moore  commented                                                                   
that he does not go as low as  $100 dollars, usually charging                                                                   
between  $250 to $500  dollars for  only adding  a name  to a                                                                   
statewide poll.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:34:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  questioned where  $2 thousand  dollars had                                                                   
originated and wondered  about a group of PAC's  presenting a                                                                   
poll.    He  asked  if  a  push   poll  could  be  considered                                                                   
influencing an election.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS  ELLINGSON, ACTING  EXECUTIVE  DIRECTOR, ALASKA  PUBLIC                                                                   
OFFICES COMMISSION,  ANCHORAGE testified via  teleconference,                                                                   
stated that  the statute  carries a  provision alluding  to a                                                                   
push  poll   and  is  called  "false  statements,   telephone                                                                   
polling, and  calls to convince".   She added that  APOC does                                                                   
not receive many calls on push polls.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:36:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault asked  if a poll  attempting influence  an                                                                   
election  was  required  to  be  registered  by  APOC.    Ms.                                                                   
Ellingson  stated that  they do  not have  to be  registered.                                                                   
She understood  that sometimes polls  are not designed  for a                                                                   
candidate or a  ballot issue.  Sometimes other  questions are                                                                   
added, peripheral to the issue.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault  worried about the issue of  influencing an                                                                   
election, which he  believed that under the  APOC rules, they                                                                   
are required to be registered.   Ms. Ellingson suggested that                                                                   
the  Chairman  was  addressing  communications.    There  are                                                                   
definitions  in   the  law  about  the  different   types  of                                                                   
communications  and depending  on  how they  are  structured,                                                                   
determine  if  an entity  would  need  to be  registered  and                                                                   
identified.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:39:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze asked for APOC's  comments on Amendment 3.                                                                   
Ms. Ellingson said they had not  received that amendment yet.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze requested  commentary on  how the  law is                                                                   
enforced   &    disclosed   for   polling    procedures   and                                                                   
requirements.    Ms.  Ellingson   responded  that  polls  are                                                                   
difficult  to specifically  address because  for many  years,                                                                   
they have  never been  addressed in  statute.  Between  2002-                                                                   
2003,  there  was  some definition  put  into  the  statutes.                                                                   
Prior to Campaign  Finance Reform, any poll  was considered a                                                                   
contribution.  In  1997 with passage of the  campaign finance                                                                   
laws, poll costs became costly  and over the limit factor for                                                                   
contribution.  Enforcing  is difficult & APOC  is usually the                                                                   
last  to find  out about  the polling.   The  polls are  done                                                                   
outside the  realm of campaign  disclosure area; it  would be                                                                   
difficult to administer and get  a handle on.  The Commission                                                                   
has addressed  how to get  something created for  determining                                                                   
the  guidelines.    She worried  about  the  outside  polling                                                                   
industry.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:43:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze supported the  intent of the amendment but                                                                   
worried  about the  effect on  the bill  and the  obligations                                                                   
placed upon APOC.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  addressed questions previously  asked by                                                                   
the Committee.   He pointed out  that the $2  thousand dollar                                                                   
limit  would not apply  in most  cases.   He maintained  that                                                                   
people should  know how much the  poll costs.   He understood                                                                   
that  there could  be more  demand  on the  resources but  no                                                                   
monitoring unless someone files a complaint.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:46:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer responded  that he could accomplish  a poll by                                                                   
hiring an  out of  state pollster.   He  asked if the  change                                                                   
would  adversely   affect  the   Alaskan  polling   business.                                                                   
Representative Gara  maintained that if you  were a candidate                                                                   
paying for  it, the name would  have to be revealed.   He did                                                                   
not know  if the law  could be enforced  on the out  of state                                                                   
pollsters.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Ellingson noted that if someone  does make an independent                                                                   
expenditure  to purchase  a  poll, there  are  identification                                                                   
requirements  if related  to  an Alaskan  candidate.   If  an                                                                   
individual is paying,  they are allowed ten days  to file the                                                                   
expenditure report.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  recommended removing the  dollar limit                                                                   
and making it an absolute full disclosure.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault  asked  if a  Political  Action  Committee                                                                   
(PAC)  paid for  a  poll,  would the  reporting  requirements                                                                   
indicate  that.  Ms.  Ellingson  said yes.   She pointed  out                                                                   
that PAC and group are used interchangeably in the law.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  MOVED to  ADOPT  Conceptual  amendment,                                                                   
changing  the words  at  the end  of  Amendment  #3 (Copy  on                                                                   
File).  The amendment  would be to Page 1, Line  13, deleting                                                                   
"contributed  money to pay  for this  poll" and inserting,  "                                                                   
'this poll is  paid for by persons interested  in the outcome                                                                   
of  this election.'    The person  conducting  the poll  must                                                                   
provide a toll free or local phone  number that can be called                                                                   
to obtain the information in this section."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:51:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker   acknowledged  that   the  conceptual                                                                   
amendment  makes it  better.   The intent is  to have  people                                                                   
disclose their participation in the campaigning.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  MOVED to ADOPT Conceptual  Amendment 2                                                                   
to Amendment #3,  removing the $2,000 dollar  requirement and                                                                   
stating that  "any person  paying for such  a poll,  would be                                                                   
wrapped  into this web".   Representative  Gara OBJECTED  for                                                                   
purposes of discussion.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara wanted  to  avoid the  pollster's  phone                                                                   
call  going  on for  a  long  time.   He  recommended  adding                                                                   
between "$500 - $700 dollars".                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Chenault did not think  those numbers would make the                                                                   
call longer  or shorter.  He  thought it would only  cost the                                                                   
person offering the poll extra money.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara WITHDREW his  OBJECTION. There  being NO                                                                   
further  OBJECTION, conceptual  Amendment 2  to Amendment  #3                                                                   
was adopted.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:54:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Lynn   commented   on  the   changes   made,                                                                   
suggesting they  would be better  placed in another  piece of                                                                   
legislation.  He  stated the important aspect of  the bill is                                                                   
inclusion of the statute of limitations.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze WITHDREW  his  OBJECTION  to the  amended                                                                   
Amendment #3.  Co-Chair Chenault OBJECTED.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR:      Thomas, Crawford, Gara, Hawker, Joule, Kelly,                                                                    
               Meyer                                                                                                            
OPPOSED:       Stoltze, Nelson, Chenault                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster was not present for the vote.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (7-3).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:58:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze MOVED  to REPORT  CS HB  281(FIN) out  of                                                                   
Committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  with  the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal notes.  There  being NO OBJECTION, it was                                                                   
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS  HB  281   (FIN)  was  reported  out  of   Committee  with                                                                   
"individual" recommendations and  with a new zero note by the                                                                   
Legislative  Affairs Agency, a  two new  fiscal notes  by the                                                                   
Department of Law and the Department of Administration.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:00:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 57(RES)                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     An  Act relating  to fishing, hunting,  and trapping  in                                                                   
     marine  park  units of  the  Alaska state  park  system,                                                                   
     amending  the area within  designated marine  park units                                                                   
     of the Alaska state park  system, and adding marine park                                                                   
     units to the Alaska state park system.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JESSE  KIEHL,   STAFF,  SENATOR  KIM  ELTON,   explained  the                                                                   
legislation,  which adds  14 islands  to  an existing  marine                                                                   
park parcel.   The  islands are  heavily used  by both  local                                                                   
residents as well as visitors  from out of State for hunting,                                                                   
fishing, recreation and tourism.   The waters off the islands                                                                   
are productive fishing grounds.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Kiehl  stated that  the bill  was developed jointly  with                                                                   
the  Division  of Parks.    It is  supported  by  the City  &                                                                   
Borough of Juneau  (CBJ), the local tourism  companies, urban                                                                   
Native  corporations, fishing  charter companies  as well  as                                                                   
outdoor groups including the Territorial Sportsmen.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Kiehl noted  that one of the primary purposes  for adding                                                                   
the lands  and water to  the State Marine  Park system  is to                                                                   
begin to develop amenities on  the islands such as cabins and                                                                   
boat launches in  partnership with local groups  to a reduced                                                                   
cost  to the  State.   The bill  explicitly excludes  private                                                                   
land  holdings  in  the  areas described.    All  those  land                                                                   
holdings have  water access  and will not  be impeded  by the                                                                   
bill.  SB 57 clarifies that whatever  rules the Department of                                                                   
Fish  and Game  implements  for  hunting and  trapping  would                                                                   
apply to these areas as well.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:04:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze  asked if  the fishing reference  referred                                                                   
to both sport  and commercial.  Mr. Kiehl clarified  that the                                                                   
bill was deliberately  crafted to be broad and  does refer to                                                                   
sport, commercial and subsistence use and gathering.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze noted  that  he did  not  care about  the                                                                   
legislation  since   it  was  not   close  to  the   area  he                                                                   
represents.  He  opined that one does not know  what they are                                                                   
inviting when  the Parks Division  and their management  come                                                                   
into that area.  He wanted to  know that it was approved with                                                                   
informed consent.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  asked if  there was  commercial value  to the                                                                   
land  for mining  or timber  interests.   Mr.  Kiehl was  not                                                                   
aware of  significant commercial value.   He deferred  to the                                                                   
Department  of  Natural Resources.    There  is one  possible                                                                   
commercial use - the beaches might  be suitable for shellfish                                                                   
farming, which the bill would not impact.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  where the  Copper River  meridian                                                                   
was in Southeast Alaska.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JAMES  KING,  DIRECTOR,  DIVISION  OF  PARKS,  DEPARTMENT  OF                                                                   
NATURAL RESOURCES, did not know the answer to that.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PUBLIC TESTIMONY CLOSED.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:09:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Thomas commented that  over the years,  there                                                                   
has never  been a  problem with  compatibility in the  areas.                                                                   
He thought  the areas  were also  important to the  Anchorage                                                                   
commercial fishermen.  He did not oppose the bill.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker commented  that  there is  a "body  of                                                                   
testimony"  included from  hearings in  the Senate  Resources                                                                   
and Senate Finance  Committees.  He indicated  his support of                                                                   
the bill,  which has been  endorsed by adjacent  land owners,                                                                   
the fisheries community and the  park.  He applauded the work                                                                   
done by the sponsor.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer noted the small fiscal note.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze MOVED  to REPORT  CS SB  57 (RES) out  of                                                                   
Committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  with  the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal notes.  There  being NO OBJECTION, it was                                                                   
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS  SB 57  (RES) was  reported out  of Committee  with a  "no                                                                   
recommendation" and with fiscal  note #2 by the Department of                                                                   
Natural Resources and zero note  #3 by the Department of Fish                                                                   
and Game.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 209                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     An Act extending the termination date of the Alaska                                                                        
     Commission on Aging; and providing for an effective                                                                        
     date.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:12:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TOM OBERMEYER,  STAFF, SENATOR  BETTYE DAVIS, explained  that                                                                   
under  AS  44.21.200,  a  number of  the  Alaska  boards  and                                                                   
commissions  have  an expiration  date.   SB  209  is an  act                                                                   
extending the  termination date  of the Alaska  Commission on                                                                   
Aging and  providing for  an effective  date.  In  accordance                                                                   
with  the  Alaska   Statutes  as  part  of   the  legislative                                                                   
oversight responsibility, the  Division of Legislative Budget                                                                   
and Audit (LBA)  conducted a sunset review of  the Commission                                                                   
in  2007.   The purpose  of  that review  was  to access  the                                                                   
demonstrated  public   need  for  the  continuation   of  the                                                                   
Commission.  As a result, LBA  determined that the Commission                                                                   
on Aging  is helping older  Alaskans.  The audit  recommended                                                                   
that  the   Legislature  adopt   legislation  extending   the                                                                   
commission's  termination  date to  June 30,  2016.   SB  209                                                                   
makes that amendment.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:14:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DENISE  DANIELLO, EXECUTIVE  DIRECTOR,  ALASKA COMMISSION  ON                                                                   
AGING, voiced support  for SB 209.  The Alaska  Commission on                                                                   
Aging  was  established  in 1982  to  be  a voice  for  older                                                                   
Alaskans.  The Commission satisfies  a federal requirement of                                                                   
the  Older  Americans  Act,  Section   306(AD),  requiring  a                                                                   
commission  council  compromised  of  individuals  of  senior                                                                   
status and  funded by  Older Americans  Act.  The  Commission                                                                   
satisfies  that State requirement  and the  State is  able to                                                                   
bring forth  $4.7 million federal  dollars to  support senior                                                                   
services.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:16:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze  asked  for   reflections  on  the  audit                                                                   
regarding  the  mission  of the  Commission.    Ms.  Daniello                                                                   
responded  that the audit  contained a  requirement taken  up                                                                   
under  SB  243 to  update  the  statutes to  reflect  current                                                                   
practice.    In 2003,  under  previous  Governor  Murkowski's                                                                   
Administration,  there was  a change  in the  way grants  for                                                                   
senior  services were  administered.   Under Executive  Order                                                                   
(EO)  103, established  a  new  division called  Division  of                                                                   
Senior  and  Disability  Services, which  assumed  the  grant                                                                   
making authority  from the Alaska  Commission on Aging.   The                                                                   
statues were never updated to reflect that change.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze corrected that  the Executive Order was EO                                                                   
108 not EO  103.  He pointed  out that was the  only question                                                                   
the audit raised.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:18:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARIE DARLIN,  AARP TASK FORCE,  testified on behalf  of over                                                                   
90,000 members  in AARP in Alaska,  who voice support  for SB
209.  She reiterated  that it had been the  recommendation of                                                                   
a  recent  audit.     She  commented  on  the   work  of  the                                                                   
Commission, which  helps determine  the important  issues and                                                                   
vision  for the  best  interest  for the  State.   She  urged                                                                   
support for the bill.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:20:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara applauded  the work  done by Ms.  Darlin                                                                   
and the members of AARP.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PUBLIC TESTIMONY CLOSED                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Thomas  inquired the  age  restriction.   Ms.                                                                   
Daniello responded  that for  the Alaska on  Aging, it  is 60                                                                   
years of age or older as defined  by the Older Americans Act.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer referenced the fiscal notes.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze  MOVED to REPORT  SB 209 out  of Committee                                                                   
with  individual recommendations  and  with the  accompanying                                                                   
fiscal notes.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SB  209  was reported  out  of  Committee  with a  "do  pass"                                                                   
recommendation  and  with  fiscal   notes  #1  &  #2  by  the                                                                   
Department of Health and Social Services.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:23:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 254                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     An Act extending the termination date of the Alaska                                                                        
     regional economic assistance program; and providing for                                                                    
     an effective date.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
JODY SIMPSON,  STAFF, SENATOR CHARLIE HUGGINS,  said that the                                                                   
Alaska Regional  Economic Assistance  Program was  created by                                                                   
the Legislature  in 1988 to promote the  economic development                                                                   
of Alaska's urban  and rural areas.  The program  enables the                                                                   
creation   of  Alaska   Regional   Development   Organization                                                                   
(ARDOR).  To carry  out the mission of each  ARDOR, the State                                                                   
provides  funding  in the  form  of  grants.   In  turn,  the                                                                   
ARDOR's  use that  money to  leverage, on  the average  eight                                                                   
times the  State's investment  in private, federal  and other                                                                   
funds.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The intent for the statewide ARDOR's is:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
   ·    Enable local officials and business to pool                                                                             
        resources and work together on economic development;                                                                    
   ·    Develop partnerships among public, private and other                                                                    
        organizations; and                                                                                                      
   ·    Provide technical assistance via direct links with                                                                      
        local citizens.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:26:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze pointed out  that SB  254 is a  companion                                                                   
bill to HB 272, which he had sponsored.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:27:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL  HANZUK,   DEVELOPMENT  SPECIALIST,   ARDOR  PROGRAM,                                                                   
OFFICE  ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,  ARDOR  PROGRAM, DEPARTMENT  OF                                                                   
COMMERCE,  COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC  DEVELOPMENT testified  via                                                                   
teleconference,   offered   to   answer  questions   of   the                                                                   
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:27:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL   CATSI,   EXECUTIVE   DIRECTOR,   SOUTHWEST   ALASKA                                                                   
MUNICIPAL  CONFERENCE testified  via teleconference,  offered                                                                   
to answer questions  of the Committee.  He  noted support for                                                                   
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
PUBLIC TESTIMONY CLOSED                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:28:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer stated that SB  254 would be HELD in Committee                                                                   
for further consideration.                                                                                                      
3:29:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 3:29 P.M.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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